Watch

Listen

Read

 If you've been on the internet or watched the news the last couple years, you've probably seen a lot of videos of teachers fighting students. These type of videos raise all kinds of questions, like why are these fights even happening? How often do these fights happen? And What can we do to prevent them?

I'm gonna take a dive into why there's so many students fighting teachers. In recent years, the educational landscape has been marred by a distressing rise in incidents involving physical altercations between teachers and students. These troubling confrontations, once considered rare, have become unsettlingly more commonplace in schools across the nation.

Such clashes not only jeopardize the safety and well being of those directly involved, But also erode the foundation of trust and respect that is crucial for a conducive learning environment. As educational institutions grapple with this alarming trend, it becomes imperative to explore the underlying factors and implement effective measures to restore harmony within the classroom.

Joining us to talk about this is Lenora Felder. Who was a director of special initiatives and has been in education for 15 years. Oh yes. I have witnessed many of them. I am thinking about recently this school year, a, there's a student who he is, what would be level four emotional. So he frequently had these out and he wanted to go outside and the administrator was like, you can't go outside and he punched him.

I want to say I see, so there's different levels of physicality. There's a lot of thrusting your body around which is very common, but actually like making contact with a teacher like that like really going after them like that's not common. You, and it, and when it is, it's normally in students who are like like we know that they are emotionally disturbed, they have it.

So it's, More of an expected thing in them as opposed to other kids. But we're, but so you see a lot of throwing the body around, but you don't necessarily see them making contact with an adult. Also joining us is Laura Sheehan, who is a human resource coordinator and was a high school teacher for seven years and an admin for 21 years.

When I have seen physical altercations on campuses. It has been out of generally fear or an escalating behavior from a student, and it's primarily between students, student to student, and then on occasion, a teacher has had to intervene. And the teacher got pulled into the altercation that was occurring between two students.

Javin Carter is also joining us, who is a Dean of Instruction, has been in education for nine years. Borrowed, our kid gave their glasses away to another kid, and he went home early, this is associated with this kid's disability, so he was so irate that the kid went home with his glasses that he felt as though that he would never get his, which is not the case because he received the glass.

But, me trying to calm him down, he just was, grabbing a fire extinguisher just swinging. At adults pulling pictures down off the walls, things like that, we had to restrain him. People that are trained have to restrain students in that that are being irate in that way.

They can definitely.

According to thedailybeast. com, in an article that was written in July of 2022, public schools across the U. S. are seeing an increase in behavioral issues among students long after classroom learning resumed. following the COVID 19 pandemic. That's according to federal data. The one expert cited by the Washington Post said showed a trend of pandemic related harm to students and their teachers.

The survey by the National Center for Educational Statistics, taken among 846 public schools, also revealed that 46% of schools saw a rise in fighting and threats between students, and 56% of schools reported frequent disruptions due to student misconduct. According to TheDailyBeast. com Boom I don't know that it's any more common now than it ever has been.

However, social media certainly has had a play in either promoting it or normalizing physical altercations. I think the opportunity to film just in everybody's pocket really exacerbates the situation and also, how much the frequency, I don't know that it's any more or less now, it's just people see it more often now and it gets Yes, it's definitely more common than it was 10 years ago, but I don't want to associate or correlate students, the physicality of students with social media, because definitely social media around 10 years ago, however, I think that COVID 19 has definitely impacted just the temperament, not only with kids, but definitely adults as well.

And yes, but just to answer your question in the beginning, just it hasn't a combination of it's happening more often. It always happens. So it's happening more often, but it's actually just being captured and exacerbated and, people see it because I think that there is. It's definitely a breakdown in the relationship between I would say the general public and educators where there's no respect for educators.

So there used to be a time where it was like you are a doctor or a lawyer and an educator. Those are like the esteemed the profession. But I think there's a general client of respect and it's glorified babysitter and and I wouldn't even say it's as the respect level is even that it's like reducing educators to the help.

And when you think about, like, how they help think about how they treat waitress, think about how they treat janitor. The thing is, it's on that same round before. So where there, there would be this. Middle ground, like I disrespect the teacher. I have to deal with my where the parents are more so yeah, that's what they get.

So I think that, because we characterize a lot of it is looking for a moment. And so you see a lot of parents even online saying, I went up to that school and I did whatever. And they're like, they're the ones who are trying to make a moment by showing on social media, something that's not even some.

So I think. The not necessarily like the kids are no work. I think that the conditions where what's acceptable it has gotten to a point where it's like the parents want in on it. So if you don't have anyone telling you that the behavior is not okay, they're actually condoning it. Then you'll see an uptick of that.

According to empoweringparents. com, many children struggle with social problem solving, leading to aggressive behavior. These problems can range from getting food when hungry to sharing toys, handling adult instructions, resisting peer pressure, and avoiding risky behaviors. While most children develop problem solving skills as they grow, some may face challenges due to learning disabilities or hidden factors, hindering their ability to function effectively.

Consequently, These children may resort to violence and verbal abuse as coping mechanisms. Lacking the necessary skills they should have acquired during their development. I don't have a great relationship with my mom. She kicked me out, haven't seen her in six months. Another situation would be our, or a kid lives with, like that same kid.

He lives with grandma and her mother, mom really wasn't involved until recently. So it just, and during that time, he was just up in arms. Whether he's going to live with mom or grandma and then grandma and mom were beefing. So just, kids love, like they see their parents and their families as superheroes.

And when sometimes their families fall short, they can take on that emotional burden and it can look like, a fight or being physical with a teacher at school. So it was definitely trauma. It was definitely emotional. It could be an emotional disability. So it just, it depends. It varies.

It has absolutely nothing to do with teachers and students. It is kids are growing up in situations where there's no structure and support. And so if you don't have a regiment, you don't have adults who do the things that adults should do feed you, clothe you, provide you safety and all those things and or you are being what we call adultified where you have Younger siblings and you have to take care of them and all those things you are essentially operating like someone who is older and more responsible than what you should be.

You come to school and you have someone now I'm telling you, okay, sit down. And do your work and do these things at the times and when I tell you to do them. And then they don't have any coping skills. On how to deal with the discomfort that they're feeling, so it becomes that and then as an adult.

It's you're still in the mindset of this child is talking to me like they're not a child and the adult and the child is saying, I don't have I have all adult responsibilities. We are the same. I think that's a clash that's happened that people aren't really recognizing as much and there's also the idea of.

I can't read and write, and this lady is telling me to read and write, and I don't know what to do, I can't admit that I can't read and write, and it in, in the discomfort that I'm feeling, no one has ever given me any coping skills or the verbiage to say, I'm embarrassed because I don't know these words, and I can't write these words, so I get, I throw my body around, and if they come near me, then I put that aggression at, toward them, But it's not them, it's just those things in between and they're just standing proxy for those things.

Having kids out of school for a while due to COVID also didn't help the situation. I think kids lost a big chunk of their social development because they were not in school for a couple of years. And the maturity level of students interacting with one another in many ways has really been more of a problem.

Teachers may not always feel as safe in classrooms when faced with students exhibiting aggressive behaviors. Such behaviors can create an environment of tension and unpredictability, potentially putting educators at risk. The fear of physical harm or emotional stress can hinder their ability to effectively teach and nurture a positive learning atmosphere.

Never. No, I'm not scared of kids in any respect. I think that I wouldn't use the word scared. I think that like I said before, especially when you know that a kid is classified as E. D. I think that you when you learn what their trick like when what they look like when they start to build up.

So I have seen teachers be apprehensive. When they see those things, but I've never experienced someone saying, oh, I'm afraid to come to work because of a kid. I've seen students again, I'm hesitant to use the word afraid because I've never seen I've never experienced the kids say, I don't want to come to school because X, Y, and Z, but I have experienced kids come into my office and say, hey, this is what happened.

And I want to, I want you to know this and I don't want anything. To happen. Like I wanna be separate from them or I want to make sure there's another adult in there. But I've never experienced them say they don't wanna come to school. Okay. I have never felt unsafe in the schools where I have worked.

. However I work currently with some schools where, There truly is, there is a, can be a dangerous place. There is not enough, there are not enough adults for the number of students in a space. There are not enough procedures in place to address student behaviors. And I can I have never experienced that kind of discomfort where I didn't want to go to, to work.

I have known teachers that have genuinely been fearful. To go to work because of the students in their classrooms, the environment that they're working in. And sometimes it's with merit. I would say yes and no. I think me just having a background just like a wrestling background and that I've never felt.

I've never really feel uncomfortable in playing ball in college. I never really feel uncomfortable. Getting into altercations with anyone, but I think I feel really, I think I felt uncomfortable restraining kids or calming kids down in that way, because it's like they are right. I don't like being in that space and that mindset of having to physically calm you down to protect other people that may feel unsafe because I know a lot of some adults may feel unsafe around certain students.

However, I think my uncomfortability just come from my own ecosystem of just not I don't like being physical unless I have to be

when teachers have problems or something that's been going on escalating in the classroom. Do you feel like teachers are getting the right support. In that regard, I think so. I think I believe that they are from their feedback they believe that they are I think that sometimes. Yeah, When they, it could be one or two students around the building, it can feel like teachers aren't supported with that one or two students.

However, I just. We want to reiterate, I always reiterate to our families and our students, not just our students, but our families and our teachers that, a lot of different, a lot of our kids or some of our kids are coming from a lot of different places and backgrounds and ecosystems that they cannot help.

And that we got to literally love the hell out of them. And that comes from being consistent with them that comes from being keeping your word that comes from showing up, and as it comes from, also, I think. Who are the uniqueness about our school is that we provide resources, we provide a lot of resources, and to help our kids get those things out of their systems to help our kid and that doesn't mean that we use our adults as stepping stools and just a punching bag.

That's not the case. However, I just think that, When it comes to those kids that have those irate behaviors because they've seen their mother get molested or harmed or mistreated, that is, even though I don't agree with them being irate, I understand why they are because I think any one of us will be that way.

We just had one bad day. I am admin, but we Our school works a little bit differently. We are not one of the schools that opt to suspend kids and we don't like we are not punitive in that regard. What we do is we are always looking at therapeutic options. So we have counselors. We have therapy. We have, we look at everything from the avenue of life.

What is massive hierarchy of needs? Where are they on? This hierarchy and how can we, find where we can find the problem in one of these levels. And so we try to operate in a way that's like that, providing them talking to the kid, providing them with therapy, a lot of times you'll see, they're angry because they're hungry.

So we get them food, we connect their families with, different food banks and things like that. So we try to, we take a therapeutic approach to things. But what we have experienced. Are a lot of adults who are very obsessed with punitive measures and they don't think that. If you don't suspend them, you don't kick them out or anything like that, then you haven't done it.

So we have experienced a lot of pushback in terms of that, because our contention is that okay, we suspend this child, but there is. The streets waiting for them, so the best place in this most safest place for them is in school. And so we can provide them with some measures to help them deal with what actually happened.

But we do get a lot of pushback from adults who have grown up in punitive systems where you're supposed to be kids, you're supposed to, kick them out, where our school is boys don't come to school because They don't feel welcome. So we want to provide an environment where they feel welcome.

Even with those issues, we have therapists who help them deal with those issues. We have yoga and we help the boys deal with that. Like they have all types of different to help them actually like. Fix the problem, not just get it out of our face, and then they come back in and they're okay for a week, and then they're right back at it.

We really try to get to the bottom. As an administrator, I have had many occasions where teachers have come to me either asking for support or complaining about the environment in in their classroom. And sometimes It truly is a factor of an inexperienced teacher who has not set the appropriate parameters within their classroom.

They need more practice and skill at classroom management. If they had set up the classroom for limited downtime, students are engaged in Learning there would be less opportunity for students to become unruly and therefore for it to potentially get out of hand. With that said, I do still think that kids need to be accountable for their behavior as well.

It's not all on the teacher, although the teacher is the adult in the room. Kids. Need to know that they aren't really running the roost here. They need to be accountable. They need to be focused that we believe in them and we want them to learn and we want them to be a member of that classroom community and society.

And sometimes that requires there to be rules and for there to be consequences. The

biggest help I think is just proximity, getting close to where the root of the problem is. And if the teacher has built that level of rapport with the student, they can walk over and immediately address the behavior to say, hey, look, I think you might need a minute. Johnny, why don't you step out for a second, get yourself together and come back.

Or Hey guys, we're, that's, we're not doing this today. Let's get refocused on our reading or, some kind of a change in the instruction so that the behaviors don't interfere so that proximity. To the problem is the quickest remedy to the situation now that is putting sometimes that's putting yourself in harm's way because you're stepping right into the fire that understanding that first.

The kid is not directing anything at you. You are standing proxy for some other problem. And as, as much as, the big and bad as the kid is presenting, they are a kid who does not have frontal lobe development. They don't know how to do it. They don't know. They don't know how to resolve conflict.

So that's one thing. The first thing that we always say is to not to not escalate yourself. We meet 10 with 2. So the kid is on 10, you meet them with 2. You still it's more important what you say while our kid is in crisis, the more than what you do. And so being able to talk to them and use a calm tone and letting them know, it's okay, it'll be all right, if you want to, it's not get out, it's let's come talk outside the room, let's, help them regulate.

And that honestly, there are very few situations that doesn't help with because the kid goes into a thought process where I'm in crisis. But there's a point when you're in crisis where it's like, Oh, snap, I messed up. And so I now have to decide. Am I going to go full on with this thing and turn up or am I going to bring it back down and so you have to catch that kid where they're in that cycle and bring them back down.

I also think 1 thing that we always do is that all our classrooms have at least 2 people in it at 1 time. That way another adult can come and take them out. It's necessary. We have we also use a system where if a teacher needs assistance, they can put, it's called the crew app. They put in the crew app that they need assistance in some way.

So I think the number one thing is violence is not a, meeting violence with violence is not an option for us. We recognize that the kids are just kids. And even though they are exhibiting behavior, that is not what we think a kid should have. They're also kids in trauma, they're kids in crisis, and they don't have tools.

And we're adults when we do. So I think a lot of it is, and it's. People, they want physical ways to prevent and it really isn't that it's a mindset shift of understanding what you're actually dealing with and not being afraid to like, one thing we always say is you don't have to win.

So if a kid is coming at me, I am a grown adult. I don't have to win against a child. So I think that's a big paradigm shift because a lot of times I find myself saying, okay, all right. Even if they call me all kinds of names, okay, thank you. But I want you to, I'm going to help you calm down, that type of thing, because it's you're a kid.

How can you insult me? You can't even go anywhere, can't go anywhere by yourself. You can't call me a name and it actually stick. I think a lot of it is really helping people to see the big picture of what they're dealing with and helping them to shift their paradigm and their framework around these things.

So they'll know how to calmly and more effectively. Money resources programs. I think I'm thinking of a program right now, like Parent University, where we partner with the parents on just it could be just regular activities, just bonding activities with their sons or their kids.

However, we could also give, courses to parents on just how to. Be emotionally constant because students mimicking copy their behaviors from what they see in their environment. I think when you give the parents, those coping strategies of how to calm down and how to handle their emotions, it's okay to have an emotion.

However, you have to just be mindful of your reactions to your emotions and things like that. I think just the money and the resources. That are put back into the communities and make sure that we are taking these steps to making sure that kids aren't harming themselves or harming others. And I think I'm also thinking about myself in this particular set of just I'm about to have my first child in September and I know the resources that they give my girlfriend and I just aren't that adequate.

Because a lot of people do not know how to teach adults how to deal with children. So like, when they get children, they think that this two month year old is literally 25, and they're not. I see a lot of adults just sometimes take it out on kids. I'm like, you know you're trying to fight and argue with a three year old, but they're not listening, they're not.

I'm like, I understand that. They literally are only been here for 36 months. 36 months. So it just, that's just not just a, that's not just a socioeconomic program that can help just a specific population. I think everyone can work on just how to interact with their child. I think a lot of people just struggle with that.

You're supposed to try to restrain. And, just to keep their hands, get their hands away from you and get them in a position where they cannot harm you what typically happens is. If a student will go get another adult, or like I said, we already always have adults in the room, so that's a thing, but you typically have a student will get another adult because, when you're in that situation, you can't pick up a phone and try to call, so that usually happens when someone comes in the system.

I think it's a difficult, it's a difficult question, but self, you're still an adult. So that self defense thing is not something that is, is something you can say. You can't, the self defense is the restraint. The self defense is getting someone else involved. There is no time where it's okay for an adult to say, okay, now you hit me.

So now I'm going to hit you. That's not ever. Because what, regardless of what people have, like I said, they are still kids. 1, you are still the professional. You are still the person that's supposed to have more emotional competency. And then also. When I all is said and done, you're the person that's going to get in trouble.

You're the person that's going to lose their job regardless. Of the situation, like all those things going to have. So I think that people have to look at it. We, a lot of times when people, this is an emotion. So they look at it from a point of bearing and so it's not fair that a kid can hit me and I can't hit them back.

But the idea is not necessarily about fairness is what's a kid in crisis who is, using physicality. In lieu of words and being able to say, how they're hurt versus an adult who's more trained, has the biological development to help them. So I think, again, this the defense is the restraint big seeking out help to remove the kid from the environment.

So the teacher's primary responsibility is safety, ensuring safety within the classroom. And making sure that other bystanders are not in the mix is an excellent start. Teachers using their voice and authority to break up a situation. It needs to be swift and sharp and targeted. And then certainly having.

The assistance of other adults available, so you may have a go to student that you, you remain in the classroom with the students who may be having some kind of that physical altercation, but you call on you get 1 of the other students to go get the teacher next door, go get a campus security officer, go get an administrator, go to the office so that the teacher can enlist the help of others to calm the situation.

We don't condone you like our adults putting their hands on kids. I think just calling another adult, calling myself, calling the behavior tech, calling people that are actually trained. I think. Like sometimes when it comes to calming a kid down physically, it's just not everyone know how to do that without hurting themselves or hurting other people.

Just about just body movement and bone structures and things like that. Not a lot of people are trained on that. They just... When a student gets irate, they get irate and the thing is what you will need to do is just calm yourself. Don't match your emotions with that emotion because you don't want to be a 39 year old woman or a man matching your emotions with 11 year old like you don't stoop down to that level.

Keep a level head, call someone if you need help, and they will either escort or calm the kid down or restrain them if they need to be restrained. It's not all the time where kids need to be restrained. But yeah, just talk sometimes even talking to kid. Not everyone has those skills to just talk a kid off the ledge in a sense, those are the various strategies that we use to making sure that not only the kid is safe, but the adults are safe.

And making sure that one way we want to make sure we protect our doses. Do not put your hands on kids. We let that let that responsibility land on the professionals and the ones that can handle it. Okay. Thank you for watching TFD Deep Dives. For more episodes like this one, please make sure to like or subscribe.

Reporting to you from Fairview Heights, Illinois, I am Ben from TFD Deep Dives.